“Pathogens are in someway, something of a mirror of our civilization,” says Dr. Rob Wallace, evolutionary biologist and author of “Big Farms Make Big Flu: Dispatches on Infectious Disease, Agribusiness, and the Nature of Science.” However, most of us avoid gazing at this intense reflection for too long, much to our peril.

In this edition of The Secret Ingredient, Raj Patel, Tom Philpott and Rebecca McInroy talk with Wallace about his, more than a decade long, search behind the microscope, where he discovered the disturbing connections between our relationship with pathogens and how colonization that’s still happening today affects that relationship.